In Episode 94, I interview author, educator, counsellor, and artist Sally Adnams Jones. Sally did her PhD in Arts Education with a focus on transformation through creative practices, an exploration that uncovered some powerful insights about the interplay between shame and creativity. I first encountered Sally’s work on the app Clubhouse where she led an in-depth session on shame, and I knew I had to have her on the podcast. Sally’s words on shame are always insightful and inspiring, and this interview is no exception!
Whereas I often focus on the individual experience of shame, Sally expands that perspective to boldly confront systemic and cultural shame as well. Growing up in South Africa, Sally is no stranger to the shaming force of systematic inequality. Her doctoral research into the artistic practices of marginalized communities in Africa informed her deep understanding of the way society implicitly shames certain groups, particularly people of colour and women. At the same time, Sally’s studies illustrated the power of creative expression and storytelling as tools to unite marginalized peoples and promote inclusion in the broader culture. In the interview, Sally also shares some powerful and vulnerable stories from her own journey through shame and aloneness to ultimately embracing her autonomy, finding her creative voice, and serving as a beacon for the formation of her own authentic community. Every time I listen to this interview I get more and more inspired to be as honest as I can, to tell my story proudly, and to integrate all aspects of my authentic self.
Sally does talks (you can find her on Clubhouse), leads workshops and retreats, offers counselling and creative coaching, and is also an artist and author. You can connect with her and learn more about her work on her website.
Note: this interview was edited for clarity.
